The end of Dark Reign? (Or: Games Workshop's Legal Crusade)

[mordheim]

I have received a Cease and Desist letter from Games Workshop's legal group. The website is not allowed to use any art or text from either Games Workshop or Fantasy Flight Games products, not even linked from other websites like Amazon.

You can understand that it is very dificult, maybe impossible, for a fansite to exist if it can't show the product(s) it writes about.

GW has given 19th of november as the deadline. If at that date any images or text remain than they will sue me.

So, unless somebody knows a solution DR40K will cease to be on the 18th.

[Luddite]

Terrible news indeed Mordheim.

I have no advice to offer.

I wonder why DR has been singled out from the many other sites, forums and wikis?  
Perhaps because here is a place that does GW better than GW does?  
A compliment in a way?
But no consolation...

Well, then i will say so long and thanks for all the fish to the excellent, vibrant and quality community here.  I'll miss you all, and I hope to see you all in another place.

 

Incidentally, did GW explain why they were looking to shut you down/sue you?  What has DR done that's so bad?

[Dizz]

How do all the other fan sites manage?

I don't think DR is being singled out, but it needs to be more circumspect with the use of GW IP.
Art work needs to be copyright free and text needs to be essentially fan-fic.
But as long as the base IP is properly referenced and contains the appropriate disclaimers then you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

I don't understand GWs business plan of throwing its weight around like this.
They obviously haven't heard the adage that all publicity is good publicity. But that aside, I don't see how it has to spell the end of the site.

Dizzy

[MILLANDSON]

Given that no money is being made on this site, I don't see how they can force you to do anything. It's not as though this site has as much GW content as Lexicanum, right?

They CAN'T legally stop you from quoting other sites, they don't have the power to do so. Have you spoken to their legal guys about what it is that's actually caused this?

[Andy Bailey]

Im guessing that when you say end of the site you mean end untill you can go through it all with a fine tooth comb and remove any infringing items?

Also as to why GW do this, Because they can IMO.

[MILLANDSON]

Just curious, but where is the server located? Where the server is dictates what copyright law is in effect. If it's in a country with more liberal "fair use", like the US, we should be fine claiming fair use. If it's in the UK, "fair use" (known as "fair dealing") is a lot more restrictive.

Also, by adding Copyright stuff at the bottom of the main site/forum, we should be covered, I believe, since we can claim pretty much all the stuff used on the site as "fair use".

I honestly don't see, with all the other 40k fan sites on the internet, what we have done specifically to bring this about. We've not broken copyright, from what I can see.

[Luddite]

Aye,

I can't see why DR is 'worse' than say the Lexicanum, or the 40k wiki, or any other 40k-related fan-forum...

[MILLANDSON]

Perhaps we need to put up a disclaimer such as this:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/GW_Copyright

[MILLANDSON]

I MIGHT HAVE FOUND IT!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?community=&catId=&categoryId=&pIndex=3&aId=3900002&start=4

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It might entirely be down to the fact that we have "40k" in the website domain name and site name, as well as the linking of GW images from their servers, which is bandwidth theft, which can be illegal.

If anyone else has any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

[aethel]

*creeps off and immediately starts putting copyright disclaimers at the bottom of every page on her website*  Erk.

[mordheim]

Well, for one thing, we need to remove any and all images that are either from GW or FFG. That's a start. After that we need to see where we have used text from any of their products and publications and remove all of them. Then we are in the clear for the moment.

I don't know how other fansites can get away with it. It is easy to find out who the admin is of Dark Reign. Maybe the people behind Lexicanum know how to remain anonymous.

The only way I can make use of the "fair use" policy is by meeting GW in court, fighting their cease and desist order. And I'm not that rich

[Luddite]

Can it be done Mordy?

does it include content in posts that are attributed to source?

Did GW give you any warning?  Any chance to comply with their diktats?

[mordheim]

Can it be done Mordy?

does it include content in posts that are attributed to source?

Did GW give you any warning?  Any chance to comply with their diktats?

Maybe it can be done. If people want to go through the main site and let me/us know which articles contain images/text from FFG or GW. Then we can remove them.

I've already removed the Dark Reign Amazon Store as apparantly that was also a breach of copyright (don't know why) and I've also removed all news articles quoting the news articles by FFG as that is also against their copyright (why post news when you don't want people to distribute it?).

After we have removed all of GW's and FFG's images I can contact GW Legal to see if they are satisfied.

[Kage2020]

It is for this very reason that I created the "Rune of Warding" against Games Workshop legal when contemplating the original Anargo Sector Project:

Rune of Warning against GW Legal

The GW IP department is well known for being extremely draconian with the protection of their IP, and when dealing with Anargo it was made very clear from the start that all artwork had to be original, and everyone had to do just diligence to avoiding it.  (It is partially for this reason that I have commented as I have with the whole branding issue, arguing that using ripped GW formats might cause problems.)  With that said, I'm somewhat suspicious that it has come to a head, which tends to imply that it was brought to their attention somehow...

But there we go.

(Note that the Anargo Sector Project is defunct and no longer operating, but not through GW intervention.)

One possible solution to the problem is to go through the content and:

• Make sure that the appropriate legal disclaimers are up and running.
• Obtain a new DNS (as MILLANDSON points out) that doesn't involve their copyrighted terms (because it's de rigeuer to copyright 3 alphanumerics in an order that was likely used by the fans first ).
  
• Remove any content that uses their artwork, etc.

Then ask the parasites at GW Legal whether that satisfies their penchant for undercutting the fanbase.  Provide statistics that show the site is active with regards to Dark Heresy and offers a forum for open discourse that doesn't involve proprietary technologies that might otherwise cause legal issues, yadda yadda.  Feel free to point out similar issues with other sites, e.g. those that have been mentioned in the above (they just have a legal disclaimer, but take more liberties with the artwork).

As an alternate, you cut the losses, solve the problems as above, and set up under a new name/DNS that conforms to the IP disclaimer that you can find on the scum-sucking parasite section of GW Legal.

Other than that, there is very little to be done.  For whatever reason, whether personal or DR was just becoming too popular, they've decided that they're going to take their typical approach and shoot themselves in the metaphorical approach in that something had become popular and it was outside of their specific control.

It really depends on how they want to solve the problem, and how much they and the upper management of GW just want to shut down any popular site that is not their own.

Edit: Good to see that you're open to the negotiation, Mordy.  Still think that you might have to change the DNS, though.

One quick solution is to remove all content from the main site (and the header image of the forum), then contact the individual members so that they can put their content back on the site in a timely manner.  Also, this can be used as a means by which some of the organisation problems with the main site might be fixed.

Not saying that it isn't going to be a bit of work, but it might be useful if you want the site to continue... and so do the fans of Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy that believe that having something that lies outside of the specific controls of FFG and GW might be useful.

To be honest, I'm horrified at having to go back to the FFG forum.  Horrible application of the forum technology, even if some of the other site is very well done (conceptually at least).

Kage

[mordheim]

I have worked for GW and know that they care for their fans, I also think that Ross is a reasonable guy.

I think that if we make an effort to remove all GW and FFG-owned images and art and let GW legal know that we don't infringe on any GW IP copyrights at any time in the future, they will probably "tolerate" us.

GW doesn't have a problem with the domain name.

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